American Airlines Threatens Legal Action Against its Pilots for Disrupting Flight Operations
American Airlines Boeing 737
American Airlines said on Thursday they are considering taking legal action against its pilots if they continue to ‘disrupt flight operations’ according to their claim.
American says the pilots, who are represented by Allied Pilots Association (APA), ‘needs to keep its members from upsetting American’s schedule by filing last-minute delays and taxiing slowly to the gate, which have delayed hundreds of flights throughout its system in the past two weeks.’
The APA denies the allegations and even blamed American for not adequately staffing its schedule and also for not maintaining its aging fleet.
‘”Within 24 hours of being asked to return to the bargaining table, they threaten legal action,” said APA spokesman Tom Hoban. “This is akin to being sucker punched.”
In a letter sent to the union on Wednesday, Vice President Denise Lynn called the work slowdown illegal and said the airline will file for an injunction if the pilots continue to damage operations.
“This unlawful conduct is taking the form of discretionary pilot actions including such things as delaying departures for unnecessary checks, increased and late-filed maintenance write-ups, increased block times due to slow taxiing, and circuitous routings,” Lynn wrote.
“The conduct at issue is inflicting economic damage on the company,” he complained. “It is frustrating and alienating our customers and it is driving unnecessary work and significant stress for other employees.”‘
American has cancelled hundreds of flights since the situation began and cancelled 100 more flights last Thursday.
Category: Airnation
Comments (59)
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Way to go American. Lets just upset the already upset pilots and hope they are going to work with you lol. Truth be known is they wont work with you untill you work with them.
“…by filing last-minute delays and taxiing slowly to the gate, which have delayed hundreds of flights throughout its system in the past two weeks.”
Haha, that’s right pilots, stick it to them.
Hey Chris look at this. Off the subject here but oh well lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft#2001
What am i supposed to be looking for?
Ohh yeah, there are some interesting ones on there. Wikipedia doesn’t exactly have the complete list, but the DC8 and 707 had their share of accidents in the past. None of which caused by inherent flaws in the designs- just the 60s and 70s aviation climate (not much technology and pilot training to aid in safety).
I didn’t know half of these planes crashed or had issue. Thought you would like to see a list of plane issue and crashes. From what im seeing I dont see many dc-8s or 707s lol. What does that tell the world. Bigger is not always better.
Lol thats what i was thinking that this list isn’t complete. Some i found interesting was the Fedex crash in 2004. There are alot there that im going to have to read up about. But yes the pilots were trained back there just not like they are today but they were needed more training in emergencies in those days. Today we need more hands on training thats what alot of todays accidents are from not enough hands on flying.
Your on just give me a little time but I have a feeling you got me on this one but not giving up yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDzcRkbTdyQ&feature=related
this one is good but not the best.
I challenge you to find an aircraft with better sound and more thrill than this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyrLorOuOZE
I could watch this over and over again… turn up your speakers!
heres number too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwel7Ulmrvs
ahh the sweet ol’ 727. Yepp, you’ve got a winner!
Aww well thank you Chris lol.
I support American Airline 100% these unionized pilots should pay for what they are doing! Do they want a job or not? Because if they don’t then they should just keep on doing what there doing now and soon enough AMR will go bankrupt!
AMR is currently in chapter 11 bankruptcy”……….chapter 7would be complete liquidation.
Perhaps these guys who are causing headaches for AA, might feel differently if their carrier was to file Chapter Seven Bankruptcy??
Management should have made promises they could keep. These poor pilots are having the rug pulled from beneath them.
You’ve got to be kidding? The rug pulled out from under them? They are lucky to have jobs. I’m probably a little more than an outside observer, and “no” I’m not an AA employee, but have worked for another airline for 35 years as a Captain. The company is simply just trying to survive. AA can no longer pay wages and benefits like the good old days. Pilots have a commodity to sell: their labor. If they don’t want to work for what AA is offering, they are certainly free to go elsewhere, regardless of the seniority situation. The AA pilots had “best in the industry contracts” for many years. That is no long a viable option for the company. The folks you should feel sorry for are the traveling public, not the pilots! Look at society today, lots of promises were made that are no long able to be kept, all unionized employees and all employees for that matter are facing similar problems. With the thinking of many, taxes should just keep going up to pay wages, pensions and benefits for government workers, just as the price of tickets should keep going up to pay airline employees. Remember this is AMERICA: A FREE MARKET SOCIETY…..at least for now.
No, did it sound like a joke?
“They should be lucky to have jobs”?? What kind of point of view is this? Why should the pilots be lucky they have a job? They’ve done absolutely NOTHING wrong. They signed a contract to receive certain pay and working conditions when they began, and have fulfilled their roles quite well. Now, AA management realizes THEY THEMSELVES screwed up the numbers, and is trying to take away what they’ve promised to their employees. Are you forgetting the PURPOSE of a contract?
It’s not the pilots’ fault that AA management made mistakes and make promises they couldn’t keep. A contract is a contract, and right now AA isn’t providing their side of the deal. The pilots have EVERY right to fight for what they were promised. There is NO reason the pilots should be putting in their 100% if they are not being paid 100% of what they were promised in their CONTRACTS.
Pilots have the right to fight for their rights, but not at cost that it’s imposed on their loyal passengers. I was scheduled to flight out of Ecuador to LAX last Saturday, and the flight was delayed so much it was worthless to take it since the connection was missed. I rescheduled all of my meetings to fly last night, and it happened again. And today it is beginning to happen again! It has costed my a lot of money from cancellations to prepaid hotels and car rentals, and I don’t believe either party will gain from this behavior in the end. Tomorrow I will buy a ticket from LAN, after all the new rescheduling and money wasting. I have always believed it’s better to have 50 percent of something than 100 percent of nothing. At this pace, American will end up with nobody to fly for.
When passengers start paying union dues then maybe the pilots will consider this. The pilots have their jobs to worry about. It’s not their fault management made promises they couldn’t keep.
Amen the pilots had what they wante and just because american can’t pay there bills means the pilots are missing out. Maybe if the upper management would quit stuffing there pockets full of cash and put the money towards the company and other things then maybe things will straighten out.
What in the world type of attitude is this???
The passengers too, have their jobs, their lives, their commitments, and economics.
Why in the world would I fly with an airline that gave me only a small chance of actually getting me to my destination?
The laughable idiocy is akin to saying “We’ll take you down with us. Then you’ll be sorry that none of us have jobs.” Passengers included.
Don, do you have any clue why the AA pilots are fighting back? Google for a few, come back, read your comment and try again. The pilots have absolutely NO responsibility to the customers of American Airlines for management’s mistake. This would be like blaming the pilots because AA can’t afford fuel.
Management promises their pilots “X”. When management realizes they made an error in their calculations and the fact that they can’t pay their pilots what they promised, they screw the pilots. Do you think the pilots feel sympathetic at this point?
Chris — actually I have spent quite a few hours reading and trying to understand the current situation regarding the situation surrounding AA Management, the Pilots Union, the AMR Ch 11 Bankruptcy, the resultant increase in FAA scrutiny during the Ch 11 process, the furlough notices to the mechanics… et al.
My post was NOT one meant to be in ANY WAY voicing support for AA management, and the poison apples they send via the mainstream media propaganda.
My post really was STRICTLY to the attitude expressed in the line “When passengers start paying union dues, then the pilots will consider this.” Actually, because this forum doesn’t necessarily link responses well I may have missed the exact point of that line in response to an earlier post. Even re-reading the entire thread its not clear.
Believe me, in my profession I certainly paid MY DUES in blood, sweat and tears, family sacrifices, etc… to pursue what I loved. I think the world of ATPs.
But I lose it when MY value as a passenger and a person is degraded with an attitude that “you aren’t one of us, so your status as a human being doesn’t count.”
Hence my objection.
My support of the pilots, to their dedication, their professionalism, and their contribution to society and the economy is total. I understand that this entire LONG affair with a contract that was not honored, now voided resulting careers and livelihoods threatened has culminated in this fiasco.
(Mis)Management appears to be the underlying point, but the moment that the professionals toss my life and concerns into the dumpster as the post appeared to, is to lose the only bargaining chip (the consumer dollar) left.
THAT was the objection I meant to voice.
If my response was unwarranted or out of context, my apologies and retractions are offered.
Hey chris email me sometime. Williambaker08@yahoo.com
I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE SUPPORTING THE STUPID (AND UNIONIZED) PILOTS!!!!!
Seriously why do you continue to post on matters you have NO clue about?? You should have kept current on WHY the pilots are fighting back and WHAT they’re fighting for. The pilots are NOT asking for anything beyond what they were PROMISED. They are not asking for more money, better hours, or more of anything than what AA PROMISED them. When AA “figured out” years later that they made a mistake in their estimations as to what they could afford to pay their pilots, they decide to take it back. Does that sound ethical to you?? What would YOU do if you were one of the pilots? Maybe if you were old enough to have a job you’d be able to make more sensible comments. You’re completely ignorant on this subject.
You need to end the bigotry, you’re making yourself look like a fool.
Pilots and company have to be aware that the only way out is a sensible and decent dialog. The company made promises it could not keep, that is why they filed for chapter 11. The milking cow is sick. If both parties don’t have the attitude to find a solution through a consistent and realistic communication and bargaining process, the outcome is sure, the company will be doomed. That is a fact.
Or… Every AA pilot can “call in sick” for work, AA will have zero pilots, make no money, realize there are ZERO other pilots available to take the job, bite the bullet and give their pilots what they were promised, and get back to business.
I wouldn’t say there are NO other pilots available………there are plenty that would gladly take their place, even temporarily, of those that choose to not work. Sickouts and slowdowns are BS.
Do you have any clue how many pilots AA has on payroll? I don’t think there are HALF that many student pilots in existence. Of course, all the pilots from Kingfisher are looking for work…
Just to sum it up for anyone else who might be confused: AA promised their pilots certain pay and working conditions for piloting their planes. All of a sudden AA cut their pay and working conditions by “X” percent. In return, the pilots are working “X” percent less (hence the longer taxi times, taking their time…). It sounds pretty logical to me. Why some of you are confused or “taken” by the pilots’ actions is beyond me.
I’m confused Chris. So far the pilots’ attitude has costed me 1600 dollars in fare differences and late cancellations, not to mention missing important business meetings. I was not promised anything but to get to my destination on time, I’m just a regular folk trying to make a living for my family. My rights should start where theirs end.
Your only error in your comment is the misplacement of the word “pilots’” with “AA management”. AA has not given their pilots the pay and working conditions they agreed upon. The pilots at this point have NO obligation to continue piloting! Management isn’t holding up their end of the deal, so why should the pilots?
It’s not the pilots’ fault that they’re not being payed what they were promised. Like i said earlier, once the passengers start paying the pilots’ union dues, maybe then the pilots will “look out for the passengers” first. This is a business, not a charity. These pilots are flying for a living. They each signed a contract with AA to receive X for piloting. Once AA takes it away, the pilots have NO obligation to fly.
To Chris — Now that AMR is in Ch 11 proceedings, you need to understand that there is MORE to it than you suggest, regarding your overly broad statement “the pilots have NO obligation to fly.”
see also From the APA website:
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/ctl/ArticleView/mid/1983/articleId/1939/Our-legal-responsibilities.aspx
I appreciate your passion and support of the pilot’s of APA.
Chris is never wrong Jose…. Not worth debating.
It’s hard to debate fact- that’s why it’s so useful in conversation.
@Chris Just to clarify… Are you an AA Pilot? Captain or FO?
He is neither Don. Hes still young.
Excuse me?
No, i am not an AA employee. I do however know a great deal about what is going on between AA and it’s pilots and i know the workings of a union quite well.
Was just trying to cover your butt is all. No offence towards you. So if it sounded like that im Sry
I don’t need anyone to cover my butt, i can handle myself quite well.
Chris said: ” Don, do you have any clue why the AA pilots are fighting back? Google for a few, come back, read your comment and try again.” He tells others of the “error” in their opinion – because his own opinion of course is far more worth than any other.
Apart from choice of words making you sound pretentious, self centered and with an underserved huge ego, I don’t see where you get off talking to people like this… You could well be a psycopath – but if you do have some compassion – these are people you are talking to, with opinions that are just as equal as your own. Telling the guy to go read elsewhere then see the error of his ways… That made me laugh my socks off.
It’s not a conversation, because Chris is right, everyone else is wrong. Someone said you are young, I say very immature.
Pointless discussing anything on here, you are soiling every comment page on this site….
Dave, I don’t mean to offend anyone. And I never intended to give my opinion, I have only been stating the facts about the subject. Opinions are all well and nice, but sometimes people let their emotions get in the way of reality… Again, didn’t mean to offend!
Dave — Not sure how much you are addressing this to me, or Chris.
Didn’t mean to sound either condescending or pretentious.
My point of the quote, was the point that in a Chapter 11, there are restrictions to what legal remedies exist while the restructuring is in progress.
Beyond that, yes, I have spent quite a bit of time on the issue.
Sorry Donovan, it wasn’t aimed at you… It was for Chris.
Chris: if you don’t mean to offend, I accept you at your word, but the language has gone from debate to dictator.
Telling people to go away and come back when they think like you is harsh… Even for the internet. It’s berating, not debating…
Much of what ou say is opinion btw…. As is everyone on here except AA pilots and mgmt, if there are any…
Dave I see where you’re coming from. When I said to “come back” I was hoping the writer would do some research before posting something very untrue… but I see your point, well taken.
I don’t know why some of you can’t read our rules. C’mon people!! Like we said above…be respectful or I’m closing the thread.
Here’s a novel concept everyone: Why don’t you be just a little bit nicer. It wouldn’t hurt. In fact, I’m going to insist on it! :)
Hi All:
This has to be a first for airline management. First they cause the unrest with their employees. The FAA looks the other way (which they are very good at doing) So, now the AA management wants to sue their own employees?
Sort of like start the problem by outsourcing maintenance, cut costs to the bone and create a safety issue. Layoff employees because of outsourcing! ( to third world countries mind you) and frustrated pilots are getting flak from management and the FAA!
Pilots know when the maintenance is bad. Management is taking a chance that the aircraft…WILL MAKE IT BACK!…..
The latest is the FAA wants to violate pilots………that will sure help the situation all right
Rich Wyeroski
Rich, how long was AA management aware that they couldn’t keep the pilot contracts as they were? From what i can tell, they had a lot of forewarning. I’m wondering why AA is being so aggressive (and like you mentioned, this seems unusual).
Chris:
Management(AA) started extreme cost cutting in all areas of the airline. One needs a crystal ball today to follow the airline situation.
I believe the merger talks with American and US Air may have something to do with this situation.
A bankrupt airline with problems is a disadvantage . The other side of the coin is all the merger talk is confusing. An example that I am trying to follow is Aeromexico and Delta.
Delta own a piece of Aeromexico and is now involved with them to construct a large maintenance base in Mexico City. Delta is planning on laying off more US mechanics and do their maintenance there.
I started to look into outsourcing pilot jobs?! Yes… a crazy idea (and needing FAA approval) where an airline could use pilots, for an example from Aeromexico to fly Delta flights!
The unions won’t stand for this, but American Airline management has already got a Federal judge to throw out all contracts.
I have to say if this happens (and the FAA looks the other way, which they will) there will be one hell of a strike.
This is so far only conjecture on my part. I simply do not trust airline management and the FAA any longer
Rich
Good points, Rich. I think the actions by these pilots are only the tip of the iceberg.
My distaste for the use of Chapter 11 as a way to force renegotiate contracts is well established already, and as the pilots seam backed into a corner I can’t fault them. It is very unfortunate that AA’s customers are caught in the crossfire, but remember who the aggressive party is.
AA management has not made a good faith attempt to mediate with the union. When the union stood their ground under the original collective bargaining agreement, management pursued a court ruling to force the issue. That is not cooperation, nor is it collaboration. It’s a back room deal, it’s dictatorial, and its indicative if AA’s way of doing things.
The pilots ALLEGEDLY (no official action sanctioned by APA) return fire by calling in sick, reporting maintenance issues, and taxiing more slowly. Equally possible, pilots are simply unwilling to go the extra mile, fly tired, and push themselves for a company that has made such moves against them as AA has.
Now AA threatens legal action. It is incredibly incompetent an arrogant to think that another application of corporate chest-beating and posturing is going to have a positive outcome in this situation. AA’s management has instigated this situation, an is trying to put the tire out with gasoline. Step back, reach out to your pilots, apologize for an aggravated case of rectal-cranial inversion, and make the situation right by collaboratively discussing the issues at hand with the APA and the pilots. That’s my solution for what it’s worth.
That’s a good way to put it Phil. AA really is “sucker punching” their pilots. This “all or nothing” way of attacking them can’t be creating a healthy atmosphere within the airline.
Oh, and to Lee Ferrara, sorry for dropping this hornets nest in your lap. I knew it would be controversial, but didn’t expect the name calling. I think we all need to be patiently reminded to be tolerant of each other’s opinions, even when they seam uninformed and inflammatory.
No apologies necessary Phil…as that’s why we have this in the first place…to push spirited debate. Sometimes people need to be reminded to behave. :)
So please…more Hornets’ nests!!